Posts by Half banana

48

Does prophesy negate free will?

by Tim207 in

not sure if this is in the right subject but here it goes.

i’ve asked this question to a few elders and bethelites but they don’t seem to understand or like the question.

to start off we have to agree that jehovah is all powerful.

Half banana

Prophecy is part of the ancient desire for omens and magic abilities in soothsayers to enlighten us. Old Mother Shipton's prophecy from the sixteenth century predicting the end of the world for 1881 had people in despair of anticipation in England. Suspiciously close in time to the prophecy shenanigans of CT Russell I think.... (1874/1878 and first Watchtower 1879)

People always would like to know the future but there is no possible way since we cannot time travel. At best we can weigh the evidence and make a guess with the observations of prevailing courses of events -- but no one can make a useful prophecy of the future with a certainty of its happening.

As Waton points out^, educated star gazers could predict eclipses so astrologers would feel entitled to wield authority in the department of prophecy, after all apparent evidence for their mystical ability was at hand!

There are no unambiguous USEFUL prophecies to be found in the Bible.

With "holy" literature, the reader is conned into thinking that it is all honest text but alas most Bible prophecies are those done and dusted so to speak, cleverly written after the manifest fulfillment!

Prophecy cannot negate free will as it is merely a superstition.

12

144000 who’s idea first

by Tim207 in

hello this is my first post although i’ve lingered on this site before.

i’m curious about a comment i read saying that rutherfords idea of only 144000 going to heaven was taken from the founder of the church friends of man.

i tried looking up this church but could not find information on when they started this belief.

Half banana

Prior to 1935, all "true Christians" were said to be anointed and called to heaven. Therefore, everyone associating with the Watchtower Society prior to 1935 was automatically part of the heavenly class. Those who converted after 1935 generally are told they have an earthly hope.

JW Facts

12

144000 who’s idea first

by Tim207 in

hello this is my first post although i’ve lingered on this site before.

i’m curious about a comment i read saying that rutherfords idea of only 144000 going to heaven was taken from the founder of the church friends of man.

i tried looking up this church but could not find information on when they started this belief.

Half banana

I came across the information about six years ago in the British Museum Library in a book on the origins of modern religions. Freytag it seems started Friends of Man with the notion of two classes; the 144000 with heavenly destiny and the other sheep inheriting the earth. This would have been been in 1919 soon after his expulsion from the Watchtower.

Had he in fact taken the Watchtower with him as the president to follow Russell, as he thought he should, the organisation would have had a completely different flavour and tone, one of real charity and humanity.

54

Do You Feel Your Rights Are Being Trampled On By Government Regarding Coronavirus?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i support local and state and federal government’s power to safeguard the public.

i wonder is it getting to a point where we will be told we can’t go out anymore, can’t use your phone or computer anymore because of the viruses that we can get, etc.

are we prolonging this virus at all ?

Half banana

I live in a country (UK) where I feel the government is acting responsibly. For a change there is no political party capital being made, it is in the interests of everyone to stay at home and not infect others. Although a bit inconvenient, all the people I know are taking it in their stride and with good humour. Apart from a few groups of young wild-things getting together at the start requiring the police to be called, common sense prevails and it has settled down to a new routine of social distancing without major rucktions.

In France the same is being achieved but by a very strong police presence, on the spot fines and imprisonment for third time infringers of the government's emergency measures.

5

The organization is missing out on a golden opportunity to reach people with the "good news"

by nowwhat? in

great question to ask your pimi's.

if we truly are in final minutes of the last days before the great tribulation.

with most everyone home, why is the org.

Half banana

What is the most important thing in the JW org? It most certainly is not the welfare of the flock.

The governing body's two imperatives are to retain total control over their members and to prevent them from leaving.

The survival of the governing body depends on milking bad news and cranking out the rhetoric.... It has nothing to do with truth. It is the time honoured mechanism within the JW cult to prevent the sheep from original thoughts and straying outside of the compound.

36

China where it started ,83,000 / USA now <400,000 How come ?

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

am i missing something here ?

how is it that where this covid 19 started , in wuhan china, china has only ,reportedly 83,000 for the whole country ?

whereas in the united states of america the figure is just under 400,000 ?.

Half banana

It is extremely unlikely that China was able to monitor and identify all those with the disease.

7

Italian Bridges

by Simon in

what is it with italy, should it really be so risky driving across a bridge in a developed country?!.

i know there is china virus happening, but bridges haven't just gone to shit in the last month.. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52213898.

Half banana

Reluctance to spend money on existing structures?

Italy is subject to seismic activity...

Particularly in the south (the bridge in question is north of centre) the Mafia have always been involved in road and construction projects, the job gets done but with inadequate foundations.

2

Plasma Based treatment for Covid 19 ?

by BluesBrother in

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-06/covid19-blood-antibodies-recovered-show-promise.

i have heard of this , transfusing plasma from recovered covid 19 patients to give the recipients the antibodies to fight it off .

great !

Half banana

Yeah but I'm not taking it, after all God will reconstitute my entire body and brain with all its memories and I'll live forever in paradise....so I'll just die now with coronavirus and God will resurrect me....

Hang on a mo, why is it that no one has ever been resurrected? (Lazarus was a borrowed ancient myth). Why is it that after 141 years no JW has ever benefited from JW promises? Why is it they always have to push the paradise goal posts into the future? Why is it that only the governing body benefit materially from this religion? Why?

20

WT study April 5 - how uplifting! How happifying! How encouraging!

by sir82 in

for you poor saps unfortunate enough to have missed yesterday's zoom watchtower study, i thought i'd prepare a little summary for you.. in fact, to keep things really short, i'll just highlight the outstanding verbs from the article.. paragraph 2: do not view.

paragraph 4: think seriously about the warning.....partake unworthily.

paragraph 5: do not feel...does not give....do not feel....would never tell.

Half banana

I'm not fond of quoting scripture as a guide but it says in Galatians 5; 14; "The whole law is summarised in a single command; love your neighbour as yourself ". (JB)

Isn't that a better way forward?

Really if there was a God and this was his intention why not forget the stupid and convoluted ever changing doctrines coming from the leadership of a dying cult?

In this instance the governing body are caught in their own web of deception having copied the doctrine of the two classes, heavenly and earthly, from a renegade Bible Student who after being disfellowshipped in 1919 had started a new religion making this distinction. So in 1935 Rutherford created a favoured group within the JW membership and now the GB are jealous of those who by conscience feel they are legitimately entitled members -- as certain scriptures imply. However the notion of "two classes" is a contrived fiction in the perpetual battle of fairyland beliefs.....no evidence for it!

As the belief has evolved, it has been carefully slewed round to become the exclusive privilege of the GB. Their main gripe is that for mere publishers to hold this prize, it takes away the glory from them as 'divinely appointed leaders'.

Anything which hints at loss of authority or detracts from their power or reputation is denounced and cut out. All oppressive cults have the same sort of problems.

9

Today’s nauseating WT

by Slidin Fast in

i am sitting at home, trying not to barf as this wt paragraph by paragraph tries to character assassinate those who have the temerity to take the emblems.

the unwritten, unspoken subtext is that they, the gb, the now distinct and separate “slave” are above all this.

they, the gold standard are immune to this questioning.

Half banana

What a lark! When it started there were the anointed and there were the Jonadabs.

Everyone took the emblems in those days 'cos that's what everyone else did, anointed, the lot of them -- except now in 1935, the newbies, the "Jonadabs" alias "friends of the bridegroom", they just sat gawping and salivating at the memorial, a bunch of lesser mortals.

The whole problem arose when Joseph Frankly Ratherflawed realised the membership numbers of JWs was going to exceed 144,000 and that figure didn't take into account goodness knows how many earlier Christians who died thousands of years ago. So he had to come up with an expedient new teaching and like all JW doctrinal change, it was driven by prevailing circumstance and clearly not by the agency of eternal truth.

Notice how this principle is in play today with the new view on "the anointed". Yesterday's truths can be quitely buried because they think and hope JWs will have forgotten the origins of earlier JW doctrine.

So here to remind you; JFR borrowed the idea of two classes, heavenly and earthbound from an 'apostate', one of those who opposed his grasping bid for presidency in 1919 who he hated and therefore disfellowshipped; Bro Freytag, head of the Swiss branch.

Frederic Louis Alexandre Freytag went on to start his own religion: Friends of Man with doctrines of 144k heavenly anointed, earthbound other sheep, Jehovah God, vegetarianism and a bit more fun than Ratherflawed officially permitted. Yet it has to be noted that JFR, president of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society did not stint himself on bootleg alcohol, a luxury lifestyle and a mistress.